Lovely read! After twenty years in Paris, boy do I know that betwixt. I still call myself a Chicagoan, even though I don’t know what that really means, and I don’t think I will ever call myself a Parisian. But maybe that is indeed the freedom. When you belong nowhere, you can belong everywhere.
Hi Jane, Yes, exactly, adaptability and openness is key. And what I should have said in my piece was that I feel more at home here, more myself here than any of the many places I've lived for so many reasons, but that's for another newsletter. thanks for reading!
There is a view, a credible one, that those of us that favor democracy should stay and support the fight to restore democracy. But it may well be that the majority of Americans no longer support democracy. Those who supported Trump, and those who did not vote, can be said to favor a mean-spirited autocratic form of government. It is not realistic to assume that democracy will be restored soon, if ever. That being the case it makes sense for those who favor democracy and can afford to leave to do so. We should not forget that many millions came to America seeking democracy. That was thought to be a good thing. Now that America is no longer that country does it not make sense for those who favor democracy to seek it elsewhere?
Hi Gary, I agree with you re. democracy in the U.S. It's going to be a while... My kids who live in New York are torn. They have EU passports, but feel they'd be abandoning their community by fleeing. It's a terrible choice. @lindseytramuta and I discuss this in our longer conversation, which you can hear in that audio link in the newsletter. I'll do something more on that in future newsletter. Here's some of what she said: "to those who say, oh, you can't leave because you're dropping your country when they need it, I think there's an element of truth to that. The privilege who can leave will leave, and that leaves the people who are the most disenfranchised potentially to stay back and fight, and that's not fair. But I think the idea that people have to sort of that they can't also think about their own survival is a bit of a limited we accept that when people are from other countries, other parts of the world, but we don't accept it when it's from America." Thanks for your thoughtful comment. Find more at the audio link here: https://susannaschrobs.substack.com/p/so-you-want-to-leave-the-us
As someone who moved to France a year ago, but not to the much-more-American-friendly Paris but to Lille, I’m so grateful to be reading a post which feels tailor-made for me. It’s been incredibly isolating, this move, even as circumstances have probably been the best they could be (have made a lot of local friends, or should we say acquaintances, and the quality of life is high here). It’s all certainly not for the faint of heart. I moved to Japan at around 20, and that was a much easier move for a lot of reasons. Also, being an American right now means witnessing utter chaos in our home country and so there’s the daily onslaught of worrying news back home… I agree that of course learning the language is everything, but I’ll also say that even with my decent French, it’s people’s assumptions and needs, all the unspoken things, which I find to be harder than the language itself. Anyway, many thanks for sharing this interview!! I guess I won’t throw in the towel after a year 😆
Hi Susan, I'm so glad the piece resonated, and @lindseytramuta is so wise about hanging in. My sister lived in Japan in her 20s and it really shaped her aesthetic and her view of the world. And yes, it's so bizarre to watch what's happening from here... I feel a sense of grief.
How interesting that your father is from Berlin. My parents were, too. After our first and last family visit to Berlin, when they had been in Canada for a quarter century, they concluded that they were no longer Berliners or Germans. Nonetheless, my mother spoke English with a Colonel Klink accent until the day she died 3 summers ago.
My dad too--he lived in Canada before the US and had the same accent! He used to say, "vat accent?" when peole asked where his accent was from, and then he'd crack up. He first emigrated to Canada when he left Berlin originally. He went to Vancouver to be a logger, got his Canadian citizenship after five years there, and then on a trip home, he took a ship from New York to Europe and met my American mother halfway across the ocean. We lived in Berlin when I was little for a time, and then back to the US -- we're always going back and forth.... I'm sorry for the loss of your. mom. Thanks so much for reading, Susanna
Thank you for the condolences, and may I say that it's always a pleasure to read you. Fun fact: Although millions and millions have emigrated to Canada from overseas over the course of our history, we have actually in total incurred a net immigration loss to the US. I'm glad that my parents decided to stay put, but at one point they actually did contemplate a move south.
And among those Canadian exports are many comedians! Americans often say they're moving to Canada because of an awful political situation, but this one might be different. I know of at least people who've just recently claimed their Canadian citizenship via a parent and gotten passports.
I lived in Germany and I've been to Paris. I also agree that Paris is not what you expect when you get there. It's overrated and I actually didn't care for it. Germany however became one of my favorite places. I learned a lot about the differences between American politics and German politics but it's now been well over 12 years since I've lived there so things have changed greatly again I'm sure.
I have dual citizenship and could move to France tomorrow if I wanted. In fact I’ve just come back from a 10 day visit to hang out with friends. But even though I’m fluent in French, I don’t feel like myself when I’m in France. (I lived in France as a teen). I feel restricted in France. A little claustrophobic. And judged? In a way I don’t feel in the US (to be fair I live in the Boston area in a very Blue state). Maybe when my husband and I retire we will spend part of the year in France.
I have been in Paris almost three years and still love as much now as the first day. I have been home twice and both times I felt like a visitor and could not wait to get back to Paris. It just feels right here!
At age 26 I emmigrated to Israel from California with my Israeli husband and two babies. True, my settling in was made easier by my husband's family and friends, and I took a six month full time course in Hebrew as soon as I came. In general, the comments on going to France are applicable to other countries as well. It took awhile before I could comfortably listen to local radio or TV, but as I am a veterinary doctor, working with patients daily, I "jumped in at the deep end of the pool". Yes, you definitely have to be firm in your decision to relocate, but it absolutely does widen your horizon. I feel something of a stranger on "home visits" over the years.
Hi Phyllis, What a heartening story. It was wise to invest the time in that course! And at least you already knew how to communicate with your patients. :)
Actually most of my "patients" say "woof" or "meow", but their owners speak a variety of languages, some of which I manage to understand. I have enjoyed your comments for a couple of years now. Keep your chin up and keep writing. Fondly, Dr. Phyll
Thank you again for such a fantastic conversation. And yes, yes, so much still to talk about--particularly on the complex topic of how to think about leaving at this pivotal moment in history, when democracy is in peril. It's quickly becoming not just a question of do you move because you're disillusioned or attracted to a different way of living? It's: do you stay in the fight at home, or leave for security or freedom of speech of some kind, and perhaps dissent abroad? It's something I want to explore in a future newsletter and will include some of the insights you shared in the audio this week.
David Lebowitz , the chef who has lived there for the last 13 years has written several books on his life in Paris is a fellow American , his novel L’Appart is an account of living in Paris which people may find interesting.
Hi Julie, Oh, yes, you're the second person who's recommended that book to me, I must find it. I'm obsessed with my apartment, I'm pretty sure I love it more than I loved my ex husband. Kidding! ... sort of.
I’m not American but after spending a month this Spring in Bordeaux, this Canadian did not want to return home! All I was missing were my dogs. Sadly, my hubby doesn’t share my enthusiasm for emigration. I truly admire people who are brave enough to follow their dreams.
Lovely read! After twenty years in Paris, boy do I know that betwixt. I still call myself a Chicagoan, even though I don’t know what that really means, and I don’t think I will ever call myself a Parisian. But maybe that is indeed the freedom. When you belong nowhere, you can belong everywhere.
Hi Jane, Yes, exactly, adaptability and openness is key. And what I should have said in my piece was that I feel more at home here, more myself here than any of the many places I've lived for so many reasons, but that's for another newsletter. thanks for reading!
There is a view, a credible one, that those of us that favor democracy should stay and support the fight to restore democracy. But it may well be that the majority of Americans no longer support democracy. Those who supported Trump, and those who did not vote, can be said to favor a mean-spirited autocratic form of government. It is not realistic to assume that democracy will be restored soon, if ever. That being the case it makes sense for those who favor democracy and can afford to leave to do so. We should not forget that many millions came to America seeking democracy. That was thought to be a good thing. Now that America is no longer that country does it not make sense for those who favor democracy to seek it elsewhere?
Hi Gary, I agree with you re. democracy in the U.S. It's going to be a while... My kids who live in New York are torn. They have EU passports, but feel they'd be abandoning their community by fleeing. It's a terrible choice. @lindseytramuta and I discuss this in our longer conversation, which you can hear in that audio link in the newsletter. I'll do something more on that in future newsletter. Here's some of what she said: "to those who say, oh, you can't leave because you're dropping your country when they need it, I think there's an element of truth to that. The privilege who can leave will leave, and that leaves the people who are the most disenfranchised potentially to stay back and fight, and that's not fair. But I think the idea that people have to sort of that they can't also think about their own survival is a bit of a limited we accept that when people are from other countries, other parts of the world, but we don't accept it when it's from America." Thanks for your thoughtful comment. Find more at the audio link here: https://susannaschrobs.substack.com/p/so-you-want-to-leave-the-us
As someone who moved to France a year ago, but not to the much-more-American-friendly Paris but to Lille, I’m so grateful to be reading a post which feels tailor-made for me. It’s been incredibly isolating, this move, even as circumstances have probably been the best they could be (have made a lot of local friends, or should we say acquaintances, and the quality of life is high here). It’s all certainly not for the faint of heart. I moved to Japan at around 20, and that was a much easier move for a lot of reasons. Also, being an American right now means witnessing utter chaos in our home country and so there’s the daily onslaught of worrying news back home… I agree that of course learning the language is everything, but I’ll also say that even with my decent French, it’s people’s assumptions and needs, all the unspoken things, which I find to be harder than the language itself. Anyway, many thanks for sharing this interview!! I guess I won’t throw in the towel after a year 😆
Hi Susan, I'm so glad the piece resonated, and @lindseytramuta is so wise about hanging in. My sister lived in Japan in her 20s and it really shaped her aesthetic and her view of the world. And yes, it's so bizarre to watch what's happening from here... I feel a sense of grief.
Grief is absolutely the word! I notice it comes up as anxiety for me a lot but grief is at the base.
How interesting that your father is from Berlin. My parents were, too. After our first and last family visit to Berlin, when they had been in Canada for a quarter century, they concluded that they were no longer Berliners or Germans. Nonetheless, my mother spoke English with a Colonel Klink accent until the day she died 3 summers ago.
My dad too--he lived in Canada before the US and had the same accent! He used to say, "vat accent?" when peole asked where his accent was from, and then he'd crack up. He first emigrated to Canada when he left Berlin originally. He went to Vancouver to be a logger, got his Canadian citizenship after five years there, and then on a trip home, he took a ship from New York to Europe and met my American mother halfway across the ocean. We lived in Berlin when I was little for a time, and then back to the US -- we're always going back and forth.... I'm sorry for the loss of your. mom. Thanks so much for reading, Susanna
Thank you for the condolences, and may I say that it's always a pleasure to read you. Fun fact: Although millions and millions have emigrated to Canada from overseas over the course of our history, we have actually in total incurred a net immigration loss to the US. I'm glad that my parents decided to stay put, but at one point they actually did contemplate a move south.
And among those Canadian exports are many comedians! Americans often say they're moving to Canada because of an awful political situation, but this one might be different. I know of at least people who've just recently claimed their Canadian citizenship via a parent and gotten passports.
Now off to rewatch Paris Blues! 😍
The picture of your dog 🐕 is worth ten thousand (10,000) words...Thanks for sharing 🐕👏
He looks like an older man in skinny jeans! hee hee
I'm going to check out the movie. Thanks for the recommendation. And does the dog have a name - very cute!
He’s called Luni but because he’s been deaf, his entire life, he does not know his name.
What a beautiful read. Thanks for sharing your story - belonging is such a complex thing isn’t it ?
You’re so kind. And yes….
I lived in Germany and I've been to Paris. I also agree that Paris is not what you expect when you get there. It's overrated and I actually didn't care for it. Germany however became one of my favorite places. I learned a lot about the differences between American politics and German politics but it's now been well over 12 years since I've lived there so things have changed greatly again I'm sure.
Where in Germany did you settle?
Bürstadt near Worms ❤️🤗
I have dual citizenship and could move to France tomorrow if I wanted. In fact I’ve just come back from a 10 day visit to hang out with friends. But even though I’m fluent in French, I don’t feel like myself when I’m in France. (I lived in France as a teen). I feel restricted in France. A little claustrophobic. And judged? In a way I don’t feel in the US (to be fair I live in the Boston area in a very Blue state). Maybe when my husband and I retire we will spend part of the year in France.
It’s so fortunate to have a choice! I grew up in Massachusetts and yet I feel at home here. We find our sweet spot…
That is true. Having an EU passport is definitely nice.
I have been in Paris almost three years and still love as much now as the first day. I have been home twice and both times I felt like a visitor and could not wait to get back to Paris. It just feels right here!
Hi Liz, and... SAME. :)
At age 26 I emmigrated to Israel from California with my Israeli husband and two babies. True, my settling in was made easier by my husband's family and friends, and I took a six month full time course in Hebrew as soon as I came. In general, the comments on going to France are applicable to other countries as well. It took awhile before I could comfortably listen to local radio or TV, but as I am a veterinary doctor, working with patients daily, I "jumped in at the deep end of the pool". Yes, you definitely have to be firm in your decision to relocate, but it absolutely does widen your horizon. I feel something of a stranger on "home visits" over the years.
Hi Phyllis, What a heartening story. It was wise to invest the time in that course! And at least you already knew how to communicate with your patients. :)
Actually most of my "patients" say "woof" or "meow", but their owners speak a variety of languages, some of which I manage to understand. I have enjoyed your comments for a couple of years now. Keep your chin up and keep writing. Fondly, Dr. Phyll
I SO loved having this conversation with you. We have even more to discuss!
Thank you again for such a fantastic conversation. And yes, yes, so much still to talk about--particularly on the complex topic of how to think about leaving at this pivotal moment in history, when democracy is in peril. It's quickly becoming not just a question of do you move because you're disillusioned or attracted to a different way of living? It's: do you stay in the fight at home, or leave for security or freedom of speech of some kind, and perhaps dissent abroad? It's something I want to explore in a future newsletter and will include some of the insights you shared in the audio this week.
Love the dog- what is his name?.
Luni! He's terribly spoiled and a little fat here in Paris
David Lebowitz , the chef who has lived there for the last 13 years has written several books on his life in Paris is a fellow American , his novel L’Appart is an account of living in Paris which people may find interesting.
Hi Julie, Oh, yes, you're the second person who's recommended that book to me, I must find it. I'm obsessed with my apartment, I'm pretty sure I love it more than I loved my ex husband. Kidding! ... sort of.
I’m not American but after spending a month this Spring in Bordeaux, this Canadian did not want to return home! All I was missing were my dogs. Sadly, my hubby doesn’t share my enthusiasm for emigration. I truly admire people who are brave enough to follow their dreams.
Hi Gina,
Several people have said similar things to me. Some of my friends plotting a shared old-lady-rest home in for when we're all very old. haha
That’s the ticket!